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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 18, 04:13 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 448
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....


........broadband service is unaffected.

It's my mother's line. The fault is either the voice side either going
open-circuit, or short circuit. On outgoing calls, it causes
'cleardown'. On incoming calls there's a click and loss of audio for a
few 100 milliseconds, and all carries on again as normal.

On Friday night, the line was permanently 'engaged' for at least 4
hours, at mother's end no dial tone, just a 'humming sound' so perhaps
it's a short ?

The broadband router logs don't report any traumas, and an 'uptime' of
40 days, speed unaffected (16ish meg sync speed ADSL2+), and all the
happy lights remain green and normal (even during the 4 hour 'engaged'
period).

17070 'Quiet Line' is deadly quiet.

Therefore I'm fairly confident the problem is somewhere inside the
exchange ?

Checked master socket, extensions, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, it's a very intermittent fault (except for Friday's session)

Anybody ever experienced similar ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #2  
Old April 8th 18, 04:57 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Java Jive
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Posts: 298
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 08/04/2018 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:

.......broadband service is unaffected.

On outgoing calls, it causes
'cleardown'. On incoming calls there's a click and loss of audio for a
few 100 milliseconds, and all carries on again as normal.


I've no definite experience to speak of, except when, during the
governmentally paranoid Thatcher years, although I wasn't a supporter of
extreme views, I happened to count among my friends some rather
left-wing people - local left-wing politicos, a member of CND who ran
the shop in Cardiff, etc. The latter told me the symptoms of a phone
being tapped, and I realised that for a short while previously mine
probably had been. When you ring out, you hear what you suppose is the
number that you had dialled ring, but it's actually been diverted to the
tap, then there's a momentary break as the tap answers and engages, and
then the number you had actually dialled rings for real. Similarly, on
incoming calls, just after you pick up the phone, there's a click as the
tap engages.

So, who's your mother been associating with? CND? Enemies of Brexit?
Grannies For Free Grass? Poodles For President?
  #3  
Old April 8th 18, 05:20 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 448
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 08/04/2018 16:57, Java Jive wrote:

So, who's your mother been associating with?* CND?* Enemies of Brexit?
Grannies For Free Grass?* Poodles For President?


Given the surreal events of the last couple of years, I suppose nothing
should be dismissed !

However, the most subversive person she rings is probably me !

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #4  
Old April 8th 18, 09:40 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 08/04/2018 16:57, Java Jive wrote:
On 08/04/2018 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:

.......broadband service is unaffected.

On outgoing calls, it causes 'cleardown'. On incoming calls there's a
click and loss of audio for a few 100 milliseconds, and all carries on
again as normal.


I've no definite experience to speak of, except when, during the
governmentally paranoid Thatcher years, although I wasn't a supporter of
extreme views, I happened to count among my friends some rather
left-wing people* -* local left-wing politicos, a member of CND who ran
the shop in Cardiff, etc.* The latter told me the symptoms of a phone
being tapped, and I realised that for a short while previously mine
probably had been.* When you ring out, you hear what you suppose is the
number that you had dialled ring, but it's actually been diverted to the
tap, then there's a momentary break as the tap answers and engages, and
then the number you had actually dialled rings for real.* Similarly, on
incoming calls, just after you pick up the phone, there's a click as the
tap engages.

So, who's your mother been associating with?* CND?* Enemies of Brexit?
Grannies For Free Grass?* Poodles For President?


During the Thatcher years that may have been true. I'd be shocked if
there was anything so detectable now.

Just report the voice fault. AIUI ADSL/VDSL can sometimes jump small
breaks in the wire, or even the loss of half the pair.

Andy
  #5  
Old April 10th 18, 09:30 AM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 08/04/2018 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:

.......broadband service is unaffected.

It's my mother's line. The fault is either the voice side either going
open-circuit, or short circuit. On outgoing calls, it causes
'cleardown'. On incoming calls there's a click and loss of audio for a
few 100 milliseconds, and all carries on again as normal.

On Friday night, the line was permanently 'engaged' for at least 4
hours, at mother's end no dial tone, just a 'humming sound' so perhaps
it's a short ?


You should probably have reported it whilst it was in this state.
Intermittent faults are a problem to track down by their nature.

The broadband router logs don't report any traumas, and an 'uptime' of
40 days, speed unaffected (16ish meg sync speed ADSL2+), and all the
happy lights remain green and normal (even during the 4 hour 'engaged'
period).

17070 'Quiet Line' is deadly quiet.

Therefore I'm fairly confident the problem is somewhere inside the
exchange ?


Not necessarily it could be a line break in the making that is still
capacitively coupling the ADSL sync RF but is unable to carry the
current required to maintain a POTS circuit.

Checked master socket, extensions, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, it's a very intermittent fault (except for Friday's session)

Anybody ever experienced similar ?


Not exactly the same. Bad lines usually take down ADSL too. Do the error
second and CRC error correction on the modem show anything unusual?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #6  
Old April 10th 18, 03:57 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 10/04/2018 09:30, Martin Brown wrote:

On Friday night, the line was permanently 'engaged' for at least 4
hours, at mother's end no dial tone, just a 'humming sound' so perhaps
it's a short ?


You should probably have reported it whilst it was in this state.


If I'd been physically there, and was confident it wasn't one of the
phones knocked off the hook etc, I would have done !
I've not been present at her house to witness any of the faults, and I'm
not 100% confident yet the breaks are not 'mother induced', (i.e
momentarily knocking the hook when she moves the phone) You've got to be
100% sure of your facts before you mobilise BT-OR !


Not exactly the same. Bad lines usually take down ADSL too. Do the error
second and CRC error correction on the modem show anything unusual?


I'll have a look next time I'm there, but the sync speed and SNR values
are the same as they've always been

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #7  
Old April 10th 18, 04:45 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 84
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 10/04/2018 15:57, Mark Carver wrote:
On 10/04/2018 09:30, Martin Brown wrote:

On Friday night, the line was permanently 'engaged' for at least 4
hours, at mother's end no dial tone, just a 'humming sound' so
perhaps it's a short ?


You should probably have reported it whilst it was in this state.


If I'd been physically there, and was confident it wasn't one of the
phones knocked off the hook etc, I would have done !
I've not been present at her house to witness any of the faults, and I'm
not 100% confident yet the breaks are not 'mother induced', (i.e
momentarily knocking the hook when she moves the phone) You've got to be
100% sure of your facts before you mobilise BT-OR !


But you are describing a POTS fault and if as seems likely the phone
line is for contact use and possibly care on call you can ask them to do
a line test which will show off hook as distinct from line fault.

My mum's line went bad in this sort of way and mimicked off hook almost
perfectly except that it clearly wasn't. BT could tell on test. Turned
out water had got into the 30 year old junction box up the pole. If she
is really dependent on the phone for outside contact there is a fast
repair service that you can get for elderly vulnerable with help from
her doctor. Requirements to qualify are fairly strict but no impossible.

https://btplc.com/Inclusion/HelpAndS...ult_Repair.pdf

Not exactly the same. Bad lines usually take down ADSL too. Do the
error second and CRC error correction on the modem show anything unusual?


I'll have a look next time I'm there, but the sync speed and SNR values
are the same as they've always been


Odd. Usually ADSL is the first thing to go into a downwards spiral if
the line is showing signs of failing. Round here the most common fault
is a tree rubbing insulation off the cables crossing mixing up line
pairs in strange ways.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #8  
Old April 11th 18, 08:22 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 10/04/2018 16:45, Martin Brown wrote:

But you are describing a POTS fault and if as seems likely the phone
line is for contact use and possibly care on call you can ask them to do
a line test which will show off hook as distinct from line fault.

My mum's line went bad in this sort of way and mimicked off hook almost
perfectly except that it clearly wasn't. BT could tell on test. Turned
out water had got into the 30 year old junction box up the pole. If she
is really dependent on the phone for outside contact there is a fast
repair service that you can get for elderly vulnerable with help from
her doctor. Requirements to qualify are fairly strict but no impossible.

https://btplc.com/Inclusion/HelpAndS...ult_Repair.pdf


Umm, thank you, interesting, I'll take a closer look.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #9  
Old April 12th 18, 02:49 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....


.......broadband service is unaffected.

It's my mother's line. The fault is either the voice side either going
open-circuit, or short circuit. On outgoing calls, it causes
'cleardown'. On incoming calls there's a click and loss of audio for a
few 100 milliseconds, and all carries on again as normal.

On Friday night, the line was permanently 'engaged' for at least 4
hours, at mother's end no dial tone, just a 'humming sound' so perhaps
it's a short ?

The broadband router logs don't report any traumas, and an 'uptime' of
40 days, speed unaffected (16ish meg sync speed ADSL2+), and all the
happy lights remain green and normal (even during the 4 hour 'engaged'
period).

17070 'Quiet Line' is deadly quiet.

Therefore I'm fairly confident the problem is somewhere inside the
exchange ?

Checked master socket, extensions, etc, etc.

Unfortunately, it's a very intermittent fault (except for Friday's session)

Anybody ever experienced similar ?



Mark, can I reiterate what others have said, that it's not uncommon
for a line fault that kills POTS completly, eg one leg going O.C. to
have little or no effect on xDSL.

So it's quite likley it's a fault in the lineplant rather than than
the exchange equipment, (not that it makes any difference to the
subscriber).

Did the Friday night session coinside with wet weather? I am thinking
of flooded cable ducts etc.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #10  
Old April 12th 18, 04:28 PM posted to uk.telecom,uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 25
Default Intermittent phone line disconnections, however.....

On 12/04/2018 14:49, Graham. wrote:

Mark, can I reiterate what others have said, that it's not uncommon
for a line fault that kills POTS completly, eg one leg going O.C. to
have little or no effect on xDSL.


Oh, I don't doubt it, I have had myself a completely dead (for voice)
line, and the ADSL has indeed carried on, however at a lower sync rate etc.

So it's quite likley it's a fault in the lineplant rather than than
the exchange equipment, (not that it makes any difference to the
subscriber).

Did the Friday night session coinside with wet weather? I am thinking
of flooded cable ducts etc.


It was raining I think yes, although the line is predominately overhead.
Previous line problems have all been 'wind' related !
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
 




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