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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 19, 09:42 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

As mentioned in another thread I'm having problems managing DNS on my
LAN. This is more of a rant than a question but I'd still quite like
to know how other people manage things.

I have Plusnet FTTC (irrelevant to the current issue) and a Draytek
2860n router connecting our NAT'ed LAN to it. There are quite a few
'things' which I need to connect to at times on the LAN:-

Desktop PC
Laptop PC
Printer
Backup machine
Gigaset base station
Draytek router
Second router used as Access Point

So, I have been using dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi (another
system I need to get to!) to provide local DHCP and DNS. This has
worked well in the main *except* that domestic ADSL/VDSL routers often
have bugs which prevent them working properly when they are not
providing DHCP/DNS themselves. In particular I went through the
default Plusnet router, a couple of D-Link ones and a tp-link one
before getting the Draytek which (mostly) works when its DHCP is
turned off.

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN? Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at
that? With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect
and eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?

Getting back to my current problem, I've been having rather strange
issues with DNS and DHCP especially when 'roaming' around the house
with my laptop so I decided to remove the Raspberry Pi running dnsmasq
and turn the Draytek's DHCP/DNS back on. Then try and use Draytek's
'LAN DNS' facility which is supposed to allow you to create up to 20
DNS names for systems on the LAN - it's a complete can of worms! I
think it's not playing nicely with systemd's DNS but I'm not quite
sure yet. Grrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Has anyone else got a neat solution for providing named access to
systems and devices on a small LAN?


--
Chris Green

  #2  
Old February 5th 19, 10:30 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 08:42:27 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?
Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at that? With
three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect and eight or
so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for unmanageable in
my case. Are there any other ways to do it?


The way I *used* to do it was set up a small DNS server driven from a
text file on a machine on the network that was always on (mine!). The DNS
server detected if my dialup was active, and any 'not found' queries were
referred up the line to the ISP's DNS server, or rejected if the dialup
wasn't active. It worked very well.

I now have 72 public IP addresses, and obviously use RFC1918 addresses
for hosts that never need to access the Internet. I run full blown BIND
for my own domains, as hidden primaries. And a good firewall.
  #3  
Old February 5th 19, 11:17 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 539
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 08:42:27 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN? Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at
that? With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect
and eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?


I'm sure there are other ways, but I just assign fixed IP addresses to
everything that's actually fixed, and keep a list of them. In a
domestic setting it isn't a very long list, and the only things I need
to address directly by IP are the modem/router and the printer, though
at one time I had a couple of network storage drives and I just
remembered their IP addresses as there were only two of them. Windows
computers automatically see each other by network name.

Some routers these days are configured by default so that the local
DHCP range begins at some number such as 64 or 100, and if not it's
easy to think of a number and set it yourself. Then you just have to
remember to choose fixed addresses lower than this number and remember
not to use the same one twice. Portable items like tablets, phones,
laptops etc are assigned automatic addresses as usual. For me, it
doesn't need to be any more complicated than this.

Rod.
  #4  
Old February 5th 19, 11:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 354
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?


I suspect most "normal" people just leave the ISP's router set for
whatever DHCP range comes out of the box with forwarding to the ISP's
DNS servers ... and reboot the router if/when anything stops working.

People here may be a little different ... I run dnsmasq (on the HH5a
with openWRT) and forward to external DNS (currently cloudflare 1.x.x.1
but sometimes google 8.8.x.x or plusnet's own)

I set DHCP to give out addresses above 192.168.1.100, leaving those
below 100 for manual assignment (or static leases) with corresponding
hostname entries for about a dozen local devices, so all devices use
internal DNS from the router, which refers externally.
  #5  
Old February 5th 19, 11:43 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 08:42:27 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?
Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at that? With
three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect and eight or
so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for unmanageable in
my case. Are there any other ways to do it?


The way I *used* to do it was set up a small DNS server driven from a
text file on a machine on the network that was always on (mine!). The DNS
server detected if my dialup was active, and any 'not found' queries were
referred up the line to the ISP's DNS server, or rejected if the dialup
wasn't active. It worked very well.


Yes, that's essentially what I've been doing running dnsmasq on a
Raspberry Pi. I could have run it on my desktop machine (like yours
it runs all the time) but having a dedicated Pi was somehow easier.

The reason I changed was, as I explained, that I *think* my Draytek
router doesn't work perfectly when DHCP/DNS is turned off.


I now have 72 public IP addresses, and obviously use RFC1918 addresses
for hosts that never need to access the Internet. I run full blown BIND
for my own domains, as hidden primaries. And a good firewall.


:-) Just the next scale up as regards size I guess.


--
Chris Green

  #6  
Old February 5th 19, 12:20 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 10:43:23 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 08:42:27 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?
Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at that?
With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect and
eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?


The way I *used* to do it was set up a small DNS server driven from a
text file on a machine on the network that was always on (mine!). The
DNS server detected if my dialup was active, and any 'not found'
queries were referred up the line to the ISP's DNS server, or rejected
if the dialup wasn't active. It worked very well.


Yes, that's essentially what I've been doing running dnsmasq on a
Raspberry Pi. I could have run it on my desktop machine (like yours it
runs all the time) but having a dedicated Pi was somehow easier.


I wote that DNS server 15 years ago. No Pi, and no dnsmasq I guess!
  #7  
Old February 5th 19, 12:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 08:42:27 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN? Do they just remember the numeric IP address and leave it at
that? With three or four machines *from* which I may want to connect
and eight or so things to connect *to* this apprach is getting on for
unmanageable in my case. Are there any other ways to do it?


I'm sure there are other ways, but I just assign fixed IP addresses to
everything that's actually fixed, and keep a list of them. In a
domestic setting it isn't a very long list, and the only things I need
to address directly by IP are the modem/router and the printer, though
at one time I had a couple of network storage drives and I just
remembered their IP addresses as there were only two of them. Windows
computers automatically see each other by network name.

Some routers these days are configured by default so that the local
DHCP range begins at some number such as 64 or 100, and if not it's
easy to think of a number and set it yourself. Then you just have to
remember to choose fixed addresses lower than this number and remember
not to use the same one twice. Portable items like tablets, phones,
laptops etc are assigned automatic addresses as usual. For me, it
doesn't need to be any more complicated than this.

Yes, OK, I could do this but I'd have to give the list to everyone
else in the house too (well, at least two out of the three others) and
changing something would be a bit of a pain. I'd also need to take
the list with me when I go away (ssh log in to home machine and then
connect to other hosts on the LAN).

So, yes, possible, but nowhere near as nice as my own dnsmasq DHCP/DNS
server. It's just that the router doesn't seem to play nicely with
that set up.

--
Chris Green

  #8  
Old February 5th 19, 12:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 195
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?


I suspect most "normal" people just leave the ISP's router set for
whatever DHCP range comes out of the box with forwarding to the ISP's
DNS servers ... and reboot the router if/when anything stops working.

People here may be a little different ... I run dnsmasq (on the HH5a
with openWRT) and forward to external DNS (currently cloudflare 1.x.x.1
but sometimes google 8.8.x.x or plusnet's own)

I set DHCP to give out addresses above 192.168.1.100, leaving those
below 100 for manual assignment (or static leases) with corresponding
hostname entries for about a dozen local devices, so all devices use
internal DNS from the router, which refers externally.


So you do almost exactly the same as I (used to) do except that you
have dnsmasq running on your router rather than on a separate system.
Thus you don't have the issue I think I *may* have of my router not
working perfectly with an external (to it) DHCP/DNS server.

--
Chris Green

  #9  
Old February 5th 19, 12:56 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 11:39:46 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

The question in the subject is - how do people just using the default
ADSL/VDSL router setup cope with connecting to other things on their
LAN?


I suspect most "normal" people just leave the ISP's router set for
whatever DHCP range comes out of the box with forwarding to the ISP's
DNS servers ... and reboot the router if/when anything stops working.

People here may be a little different ... I run dnsmasq (on the HH5a
with openWRT) and forward to external DNS (currently cloudflare 1.x.x.1
but sometimes google 8.8.x.x or plusnet's own)

I set DHCP to give out addresses above 192.168.1.100, leaving those
below 100 for manual assignment (or static leases) with corresponding
hostname entries for about a dozen local devices, so all devices use
internal DNS from the router, which refers externally.


So you do almost exactly the same as I (used to) do except that you have
dnsmasq running on your router rather than on a separate system.
Thus you don't have the issue I think I *may* have of my router not
working perfectly with an external (to it) DHCP/DNS server.


I think you said you had a Draytek. I use a 2860, and use a completely
separate DHCP server. Don't know if that helps.
  #10  
Old February 5th 19, 01:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Nick Leverton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default How do most people manage IP addresses on their LAN?

In article , Chris Green wrote:
As mentioned in another thread I'm having problems managing DNS on my
LAN. This is more of a rant than a question but I'd still quite like
to know how other people manage things.

I have Plusnet FTTC (irrelevant to the current issue) and a Draytek
2860n router connecting our NAT'ed LAN to it. There are quite a few
'things' which I need to connect to at times on the LAN:-


....snips...

So, I have been using dnsmasq running on a Raspberry Pi (another
system I need to get to!) to provide local DHCP and DNS. This has
worked well in the main *except* that domestic ADSL/VDSL routers often
have bugs which prevent them working properly when they are not
providing DHCP/DNS themselves. In particular I went through the
default Plusnet router, a couple of D-Link ones and a tp-link one
before getting the Draytek which (mostly) works when its DHCP is
turned off.


What sort of problems do you experience ? I've run a similar setup
although using ISC DHCP for many years and never had a router which didn't
cope with it, whether ISP supplied or third party and regardless of DNS
server software. Make sure DHCP is turned off on the router and that
there is exactly one DHCP server on your network, and it All Just Works.
Oh and make sure the Pi is directly attached to the router, you don't
need wireless problems and delays when a device is trying to get an IP
address !

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
 




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