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Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coverage throughout house



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 22nd 19, 12:01 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coverage throughout house

We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The router's
wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor, connected
over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged into the
router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that - and anyway,
Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of communication if there are any radio
hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the one
in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same SSID, or
should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg "base",
"base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of interference on at
least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11) from neighbours'
networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't use 5
GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of 2.4. 5 GHz
in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its range is much
smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between the
different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote access point
on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably not cover everywhere
that we want, so we are probably looking at two extension APs in different
parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet cable, so I
can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB) using InSSIDer,
without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of the VDSL
(FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between computers in
the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned off,
and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and as a
network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I need to make sure
that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one which is
outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly when connected
by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40 m cable to go in
the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems with doing it this
way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been extended
with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is best sited (for
connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a very central position
:-(

  #2  
Old June 22nd 19, 02:04 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Henson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coverage throughout house

NY wrote:

We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The router's
wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor, connected
over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged into the
router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that


That's odd - you shouldn't lose any significant speed over reasonable
distance via the mains. I have old routers used as access points over
Gigabit adaptors on the next two floors up from the main router and there's
no significant speed loss at all. Maybe your Homeplug/WiFi unit wasn't man
enough? Or very noisy mains? If possible, I would stick to the Homeplug
setup anyway. A not necessarily too expensive option if they serve your
area is the switch to BT Plus and get their guaranteed signal in every room
setup - that sounds easy but a bit defeatist to me :-)

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the one
in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same SSID, or
should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg "base",
"base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of interference on at
least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11) from neighbours'
networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of the 2.4 GHz spectrum.


My additional access points are old routers with DHCP turned off and set to
the same SSID and the same password as the main router. The channels don't
seem to matter at all - the kit finds its own best settings. My main router
(and the access points) split the signal into 2.4GHz and 5 GHz so we can
use legacy 2.4GHz devices.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned off,
and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and as a
network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP?


I don't know if daisy-chaining them has any significant adverse effects -
you'd have to ask those more techie than me - but mine have a short Cat 5
cable connection to a separate Homeplug for each router and that works just
fine - and it's much easier than trailing cable all over the option.


I need to make sure
that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one which is
outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly when connected
by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40 m cable to go in
the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems with doing it this
way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing surplus kit?


I don't think dedicated access points are essential, routers work fine here
- but you might want to ask someone more technically minded.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. - Italian
Proverb.
  #3  
Old June 22nd 19, 04:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coverage throughout house

"Bob Henson" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:

We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The
router's
wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor,
connected
over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged into the
router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps
within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that


That's odd - you shouldn't lose any significant speed over reasonable
distance via the mains. I have old routers used as access points over
Gigabit adaptors on the next two floors up from the main router and
there's
no significant speed loss at all. Maybe your Homeplug/WiFi unit wasn't man
enough? Or very noisy mains? If possible, I would stick to the Homeplug
setup anyway. A not necessarily too expensive option if they serve your
area is the switch to BT Plus and get their guaranteed signal in every
room
setup - that sounds easy but a bit defeatist to me :-)


Yes I was wondering about noisy mains. Two devices (Dlink Powerline AV
TPlink TL-WPA4220) achieve speeds of about 300 Mbps (as reported by the
TPlink) when they are plugged into sockets in the same room, but this falls
off rapidly to under 100 Mbps when they are a couple of room apart, and
drops to about 5-10 Mbps by the time they are about 20 metres apart. There
is the added complication that the house has two separate "fuse boxes"
(consumer units) but they both connect to the same meter, and anyway, the
5-10 Mbps is (as far as I know) between sockets served by the same fuse box.


I'll repeat the test with two of the Dlinks - in that case I'll compare
timings for copy large files between computers over SMB shares, first of all
when both computers are connected by gigabit Ethernet to the router (to
establish a baseline) and then over combinations of the Homeplug devices in
various locations.

If I can avoid having to go up in the loft to lay an Ethernet cable (very
low roof space, rafters hidden under loads of insulation and so difficult to
make sure I'm standing on a rafter not plasterboard, remains of old sloping
roof timbers from before house was extended) then so much the better, though
I feel a lot more confident with proper cable rather than wifi or Ethernet
over mains cable.


I had contemplated wireless repeaters - the sort that receive wifi from the
router and rebroadcast it, possibly with several of them daisy-chained - but
given the degree of attenuation, I'd need one in almost every room to pass
the signal from one end of the house to the other.

  #4  
Old June 22nd 19, 04:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 414
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

Bob Henson wrote:

NY wrote:

over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that


you shouldn't lose any significant speed over reasonable
distance via the mains.


Are the homeplugs on different MCB/RCBOs (or even different CUs)?
  #5  
Old June 22nd 19, 06:28 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

On Sat 22/06/2019 12:01, NY wrote:
We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The
router's wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor,
connected over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged
into the router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about
5 Mbps within a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than
that - and anyway, Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of communication
if there are any radio hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the
one in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same
SSID, or should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg
"base", "base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of
interference on at least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11)
from neighbours' networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of
the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't use
5 GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of 2.4. 5
GHz in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its range is
much smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between
the different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote
access point on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably not
cover everywhere that we want, so we are probably looking at two
extension APs in different parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet cable,
so I can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB) using
InSSIDer, without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of the
VDSL (FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between
computers in the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned
off, and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and
as a network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I need to
make sure that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one
which is outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly
when connected by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40
m cable to go in the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems
with doing it this way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing
surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been
extended with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is best
sited (for connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a very
central position :-(


You can certainly use a router with DHCP turned off as an AP. I am on VM
and have their SmartHub2 in modem mode cable to a TP-Link Archer D2 dual
band router. If have an ethernet cable (part external) connected from
there to a BT HH5 in an upstairs room at the other end of the house.
They are on different channels for both 2.4G and 5G and have two pairs
of SSIDs to identify the router and which frequency band. The BTHH5 DHCP
is turned off so the TP-L handles all DHCP. The BTHH5 is in the same
address range as the main router but outside the DHCP range so it can be
remotely adjusted.

Works a treat.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #6  
Old June 22nd 19, 06:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

I have the same issue. The cable coming upstairs terminates in son's
room next door to our office. I got a pair of homeplugs and used them to
feed into the office - and I got about 100K. The only reason I can think
if is that son's room is the first outlet on the clockwise side of the
upstairs ring and the office outlet is the first on the anticlockwise
ring with the power box (common MCB) and meter in between.

I got a flat CAT5e cable that is 5mm wide and 0.2mm thick and used it to
go around the edges of the carpet and under the upper edge of the
threshold trims of both room doors. The BTHH5 works as a switch in son's
room and in the office I have an eight port TP-L switch - the whole lot
running at Gigabit rates. It flies.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
  #7  
Old June 22nd 19, 07:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Michael Chare[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

On 22/06/2019 12:01, NY wrote:
We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The
router's wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor,
connected over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged
into the router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about
5 Mbps within a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than
that - and anyway, Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of communication
if there are any radio hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the
one in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same
SSID, or should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg
"base", "base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of
interference on at least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11)
from neighbours' networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of
the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't use
5 GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of 2.4. 5
GHz in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its range is
much smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between
the different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote
access point on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably not
cover everywhere that we want, so we are probably looking at two
extension APs in different parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet cable,
so I can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB) using
InSSIDer, without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of the
VDSL (FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between
computers in the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned
off, and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and
as a network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I need to
make sure that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one
which is outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly
when connected by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40
m cable to go in the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems
with doing it this way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing
surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been
extended with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is best
sited (for connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a very
central position :-(


A more expensive option would be to have a mesh wifi network.
This might make it easier for a wifi device to move from one access
point to another.

See www.bestadvisers.co.uk/mesh-wifi


--
Michael Chare
  #8  
Old June 22nd 19, 07:41 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Michael Chare[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 60
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

On 22/06/2019 19:36, Michael Chare wrote:
On 22/06/2019 12:01, NY wrote:
We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The
router's wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor,
connected over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged
into the router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to
about 5 Mbps within a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away
than that - and anyway, Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of
communication if there are any radio hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the
one in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same
SSID, or should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg
"base", "base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of
interference on at least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11)
from neighbours' networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of
the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't
use 5 GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of
2.4. 5 GHz in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its
range is much smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between
the different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote
access point on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably
not cover everywhere that we want, so we are probably looking at two
extension APs in different parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet
cable, so I can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB)
using InSSIDer, without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of
the VDSL (FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between
computers in the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP
turned off, and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an
AP, and as a network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I
need to make sure that the AP router's own LAN address is set
statically to one which is outside the real router's scope. This seems
to work perfectly when connected by a short patch cable (all I can
test until I get the 40 m cable to go in the loft), but I want to know
if there are any problems with doing it this way - am I better buying
a dedicated AP than reusing surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been
extended with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is
best sited (for connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a
very central position :-(


A more expensive option would be to have a mesh wifi network.
This might make it easier for a wifi device to move from one access
point to another.

Maybe www.bestadvisers.co.uk/mesh-wifi-systems


  #9  
Old June 22nd 19, 07:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 606
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

On Saturday, 22 June 2019 12:01:46 UTC+1, NY wrote:
We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The router's
wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor, connected
over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged into the
router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that - and anyway,
Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of communication if there are any radio
hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the one
in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same SSID, or
should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg "base",
"base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of interference on at
least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11) from neighbours'
networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't use 5
GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of 2.4. 5 GHz
in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its range is much
smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between the
different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote access point
on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably not cover everywhere
that we want, so we are probably looking at two extension APs in different
parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet cable, so I
can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB) using InSSIDer,
without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of the VDSL
(FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between computers in
the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned off,
and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and as a
network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I need to make sure
that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one which is
outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly when connected
by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40 m cable to go in
the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems with doing it this
way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been extended
with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is best sited (for
connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a very central position
:-(


Just get one of those TP-Link adapters. It can either be used as a relay (if you position it well) or wired back as a WAPI if not.
  #10  
Old June 22nd 19, 07:51 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Advice on setting up multiple wifi networks to give coveragethroughout house

On Sat 22/06/2019 19:44, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Saturday, 22 June 2019 12:01:46 UTC+1, NY wrote:
We've moved into a house with fairly thick internal walls (*). The router's
wifi does not cover the whole house.

As a first attempt to solve this, I tried a Homeplug/Wifi adaptor, connected
over mains wiring to another Homeplug device that is plugged into the
router. However over-the-mains connection speed drops to about 5 Mbps within
a couple of rooms and is undetectable further away than that - and anyway,
Homeplug is "deprecated" as a means of communication if there are any radio
hams in the area ;-)

So resort to Plan B: a long length of Ethernet cable in the loft to an
access point (or two) in other parts of the house.



*The question*

What is the best advice for multiple wifi access points (including the one
in the router)? Should they all have the same channel and the same SSID, or
should each have a different channel (subject to the 1, 6, 11
non-overlapping channels) and/or a different but related SSID (eg "base",
"base-ext1", "base-ext2")? We're getting a fair amount of interference on at
least one of the three "magic" channels (1, 6, 11) from neighbours'
networks, so we don't have the luxury of the whole of the 2.4 GHz spectrum.




We're wanting 2.4 GHz to be compatible with older devices that can't use 5
GHz, and also for the greater coverage / smaller attenuation of 2.4. 5 GHz
in addition is a bonus, subject to the proviso that its range is much
smaller.

It is quite likely that there will be a fair amount of overlap between the
different access points - but as far as I can tell, one remote access point
on its own (in addition to the router's) will probably not cover everywhere
that we want, so we are probably looking at two extension APs in different
parts of the house, each fed by Ethernet.

One of the problems I have at present is not having the Ethernet cable, so I
can only test signal strength in numerical terms (dB) using InSSIDer,
without actually testing data transfer rate.

Obviously the speed to the outside world will be limited to that of the VDSL
(FTTC) connection, but we may want faster connections between computers in
the house.


Is there any disadvantage of using an old ADSL router (with DHCP turned off,
and with no connection to the ADSL RJ11 phone port) as an AP, and as a
network switch to continue the Ethernet to a second AP? I need to make sure
that the AP router's own LAN address is set statically to one which is
outside the real router's scope. This seems to work perfectly when connected
by a short patch cable (all I can test until I get the 40 m cable to go in
the loft), but I want to know if there are any problems with doing it this
way - am I better buying a dedicated AP than reusing surplus kit?


(*) Parts of the house are an 1850s stone cottage which has been extended
with 1990s brick building making an L-shape. The router is best sited (for
connection to my PCs) at one end of the L - so not a very central position
:-(


Just get one of those TP-Link adapters. It can either be used as a relay (if you position it well) or wired back as a WAPI if not.

Have had a couple of those for some time and they work well.

One tip: make sure the DHCP is turned off or you might find sometimes
that things have logged on and have their gateway as the adapter's
address and not the address of your main router - hence you cannot get
on line.

--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
 




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WE BUY used, new and refurbed Sun, Cisco, Lucent, Nortel, Alcatel,3com, IBM, HP, Compaq, Dell, Madge, Cabletron, Juniper Networks, Bintec,Siemens, Foundry, Networks, Extreme Networks, Fore/Marconi, TellabsLucent/Avaya/Ascend, Xylogics, Brocade, Int [email protected] uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 November 18th 07 11:58 AM
Official e-petition for free WiFi access throughout the UK [email protected] uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 4 March 9th 07 02:08 AM
Official e-petition for free WiFi access throughout the UK [email protected] uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 1 March 8th 07 11:43 PM
Checking ADSL coverage when buying house Sunil Sood uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 0 September 10th 03 03:26 AM


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